9. Josh Hooper - Hooper Irrigation & Landscaping

In this episode, I sit down with my great mate Josh Hooper for an inspiring conversation about career growth, priorities, and staying true to what matters most. Josh's journey is one that perfectly illustrates how dedication, humility, and having the right priorities can lead to meaningful success.

From being my first apprentice, Josh went on to build an impressive career, while never losing sight of what's truly important in life. His story takes us from those early apprentice days right through to moving to Adelaide and going on to managing a massive $4 million commercial project. Now returned to Canberra, he's launching his own business with a clear vision of what success looks like to him.

What makes this conversation so special to me is the genuine friendship Josh and I have developed over the years. I had the privilege of attending his wedding, witnessing firsthand the kind of person Josh is both professionally and personally. Throughout his incredible journey, Josh has remained remarkably humble - you'd never know from talking to him just how much he's achieved.

In a world where "bigger is better" seems to be the default mindset, Josh brings a refreshing perspective. He's focused on doing what he wants to do while ensuring he has time for what truly matters - his family and his golf game. This balance between professional achievement and personal fulfillment is something we can all learn from.

Our conversation covers Josh's journey from apprentice to business owner, the challenges of managing large-scale commercial projects, and the importance of staying humble despite success. Most importantly, we discuss why "bigger isn't always better" and how to build something meaningful while staying true to your values.

Josh's story is a reminder that success doesn't have to come at the expense of the things that matter most. His approach to business and life offers valuable insights for anyone looking to create their own path while keeping their priorities straight.

Connect with Josh on his Insta: www.instagram.com/hooper_irrigation/

Connect with Dan here: https://www.instagram.com/theplantmanisdan/

Enjoyed this episode? If Josh's story resonated with you as much as it did with me, I'd love it if you could leave us a 5-star review - it really helps other people discover these conversations. Don't forget to subscribe to Dan the Plants Man podcast and share it with someone who needs to hear Josh's inspiring story.

Dan the Plant Man is produced by Dan Cusack.

The theme song is thanks to the incredibly talented Jack Biilmann, who you can find all over Spotify, the internet, Touring Australia, and in our show notes. And if you want to say hi, the best way to do that is to head to our Instagram, which is https://www.instagram.com/theplantmanisdan or you can email me at hello@dantheplantman.com.au

But most of all, I just want to say thank you so much for listening

Transcript

 Joshua Hooper, how you going? Good. You good mate? How's your coffee? It's actually good. Yeah. Thank you. That's cool. Little muggy too. Good, mate. Glad you're enjoying it now, mate. We go a fair way back. You were my first apprentice. Oh really? Yeah, I think what's that, 15 years ago or something? Yeah, it's in there.

Yeah. Maybe not quite, but yeah, pretty close. I think we worked together for a few years and you've gone on to move to Adelaide and worked in commercial company, worked your way up, had your own business, come back here and you're starting your own thing again. So I want to go through some of that with you today.

But I will say off the top, mate, pretty proud of where you are at the moment. You've been through a fair bit of stuff and you've, yeah, you really seem to be in a good position with yourself. Good. Thank you. A couple of kids. Yeah. Good experience with your business and yeah, I think you're gonna do a great thing.

So keen to have a bit of a chat and go through it. Awesome. So what got you interested in landscaping in the first place? Man, well, I actually sort of fell into landscaping. I was sort of in school and not in school and then my dad came up to me and goes, Hey I got a job. I got a knows landscape.

Do you wanna work for them? I was like, oh yeah. I wouldn't mind putting plants into the ground. That's all I have to fill. Like everybody else thinks is put plants in Mowen. It was Mick from Urban. Yeah,. Dad was in the footy with him, and he got me a job there.

The urban contractors. Yeah. Yeah. And I worked there for two months with Ed and Edwin. Yeah. And yeah, they were anywhere for a couple months and then we went into the office and they said, oh, they're closing down. I was like, oh yeah. And then, yeah, and then we sort of like left that, and I ended up leaving that for a while and then went, did removal us for two years and

yeah. So, and you went back to Blades, wasn't it? Blades landscape? Yeah. Yeah. Well there was a job opportunity and I, I was like, ohm, well go back into landscape. I took, quite enjoyed it. That's funny too. That's part of our story. 'cause you basically took my job. Did you? Yeah, I did actually. Yeah. Yeah. That's funny.

'cause I left Matt Cony of Blades Landscaping and then Josh was employed and then what, a year later or so you came and worked for me. Yeah. So for about, yeah, about a year with CAN and Lewis. Yeah, that was good. I quite enjoyed that. Yeah. It's a good crew. Yeah, it was a, I I, I dunno why I left there actually.

Oh, I don't know. It's like Matt was good bloke and because I, I really I enjoyed working with Can and Lewis. They were good. Yeah. It's funny. I actually wish I did probably more time with Matt. I, at the time I was a bit impatient for sure. Like similar to you a year, 10 months. I just wanted to start my own thing.

But I think, yeah, I don't know. It's obviously a long time. I didn't really have a good reason to leave. I just wanted to do something different. Yeah. I was young. I didn't really have a thought in what I was doing. Well. I guess if you can think back, I know it's a while ago now, but when you first finished your apprenticeship, I've always been curious 'cause I never did an apprenticeship.

I just did tech at night. So what was your experience like? Like I know you just touched on like school wasn't really for you, which is pretty common I think, with a lot of apprentices. How did you find going back to school and how did you find the pay? Because I know that's hard as well. It's not highly paid and, and all the rest of it.

What was your experience like as an apprentice? Yeah. I still struggled with the tech side of it and everything. 'Cause I can't sit still and listen or anything that, so like the practical stuff was, I love that. But sitting down in school and stuff I struggled, which I wish now went back, actually listened a bit more.

Yeah. Probably know a bit more. Yeah. But the pay wasn't too bad like it was. Like I didn't wanna do removal this anymore. So yeah, I was happy to get whatever and do something else. Probably live with mom and dad. Yeah. Yeah. For the start of it, weren't you? Yeah, most of the time actually. The whole time till I pretty much went to it.

Yeah. Yeah. I remember when you had your own place there in the city as well. Yeah. That was no good. Yeah. But that was, that was still, was that after your apprenticeship or just after? No. Oh no, it would've been when I just came. 'cause I was working for you for a little bit and then you had a bit of work and then stuff like, 'cause I lived in casual with you and then I went back and then came back again.

Yeah. And then, yeah, it was pretty much right when I came back with you. Yeah. I, I guess I just asked 'cause it's tough to think about being able to afford a rental probably these days. Much lot of people. Yeah, pretty much. When I came back with you, I went back to back home. Yeah. Yeah. And that's a bit of a trade off I guess that I imagine a lot of people considering apprenticeships these days have to kind of.

Consider. But yeah, so you, I, I can't remember we're talking about it just before. We can't really remember. Is it probably four years you were with Revive or something or, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And you got through your apprenticeship? Yep. I came in I think second year for you. Yeah. Yeah, that sounds right.

And that was cool. Like I was actually reminiscing. That was a really good time like with me, you and GA site. Oh, I love, yeah. I always think that, I always tell the boys I like my old sides. It's funny 'cause I know like you've seen me at my worst, like the most stressed and and when you think, when I think back to it, like I was just sort of felt like I was just hustling and running around doing a million things at once, but like now that I look back, those were some of the like proudest moments.

Some of the stuff that we did between the three of us. Yeah. Like just having to figure it out and Yeah. Get some really cool projects done. Yeah, I'm really proud of that time and, and I think we had just a lot of Yeah. Good vibes on site. Yeah, it was good vibes. It, what makes it work when you come in?

It was always us three boys mucking around, but we're still getting all done. Shout out to Gav. Oh, Gav. See Legend. Hopefully he's listening to this. I guess, yeah, what did you, is there some stuff, you know, still on the apprenticeships, there's some stuff that you remember sort of learning back then that you still use?

Or was it more just as experience went on? Yeah, I don't, yeah, like I didn't learn huge amount of and stuff like that. Like I did wish I did this in more of school stuff, but, yeah, I don't dunno. I think more learn more stuff on the field and then they sort of like more like defined it and cla clarified what, what we're actually doing.

Yeah. Oh, actually the cost of project stuff. Oh yeah. That was a big one for me actually What learned from not, not, not being on site. So everyone loves that one. Yeah. Yeah. Actually thought it was quite good. Yeah, it is a good subject. So that's where they actually break down. Yeah. How you figure out how to charge for a project and materials and I think.

I know some business owners are a bit nervous about their apprentices learning some of that stuff. 'cause they think that their apprentices are going, gonna then think that they're making all this money. But I think it works the other way. Even then let, let them do it. Hundred percent realize that you can't, it's not that easy.

Yeah. Yeah, because we'll get to that. 'cause I guess you have sort of, you went through that experience as well, so, so yeah, we had four years together, which is a lot of fun. And then what happened next, mate? Well I met, I met a female. Yeah, well it was I met, I miss like my wife now, but we were only together for six months and then she, she was in the army and she, she got posted away and we're like, oh.

Do I follow her or do I stay? I remember talking to you about, and I was like, oh, I don't know what I'm gonna do, but I, I think I'm like, follow her. Yeah. If it's the worst case, doesn't, it doesn't work, I'll come back. Yeah. And then, yeah, she ends up moving to Adelaide and then I followed her for after six months.

It was a risk, but yeah. It worked out right now. It did. I remember it well. And you're obviously happy with couple of kids and I've been to your wedding over there. Yeah. And you bought a house and sold a house, like Yeah, that's what I mean, man, I'm really proud of it's a whole different, like whole life pretty much over there.

Yeah. Yeah. Literally like eight years, right? Mm-hmm. So during that period I guess what did you do, because I know, I know, I know your story, but you kept landscaping. Was it? What did you who'd you go and work for over there? Well, actually didn't want to do landscaping when I moved out there. 'cause I was like, I might try to do something different.

But then when I was looking through the jobs and all like the, the qualifications you need to get stuff and I was like, got sort of bit worry about trying to change my work. Mm. And then I ended up applying for this a commercial company. 'cause I was like, oh, I might as well change it a little bit. I, I worked for a, a company called Space Landscapes.

They were pretty new. They only like, just about turn two when I started there. Yeah, it was like I got pretty lucky with them because like they'd literally just started and I actually got to better work my way up. Came from like a laborer to running a supervisor running whole jobs and everything like that.

So, yeah, that is actually good timing, but what sort of, what sort of work are you doing? Big commercial, so more like big schools builder sites like actually big reserves as well. It was, we weren't doing huge stuff back when I first started, but at the end of it we were doing a fair, fairly big stuff.

So. Yeah. 'cause you've done some huge projects, right? Yeah. You know, the budgets of some of the bigger jobs or, yeah. Well the last one we did I think was before I left it was like 1.5, 1.6. So it ended up being a bit bit more afterwards. Well, like the VOS and everything, so, yeah. That's nothing to be sneezed at, mate.

Like that's, that's a lot of people, materials, logistics to, to get your head around. Yeah. Well I was thinking that when I was like coming here thinking about like, when we were talking about this and I was like, actually that shit done a lot bigger things than I thought I've done. A hundred percent.

That's what I stood up to you off the top mate. If you, if you actually, hopefully you will reflect today. Like you've done a huge things from someone that didn't wanna be at school to where you are today. Yeah, you should be very proud of yourself, man. It's, it's really been cool to watch. Oh, thanks man.

You're welcome. So Spaceland, so how long were you with them for then? I reckon I was there like, I left a couple of times 'cause like I said, I can't really sit still, so I sort of, my blind goes everywhere so I try to change everything. Yeah. I was there for about two years at the start and I was like just a laborer from the start.

I was there for about a month and a half and then I went as a leading hand when pretty much just, but then that like back then we're doing everything, so it wasn't really. In the house. Yeah, so we did everything in house. I was paving a lot and that was where it sort of broke me at the first part was I was literally just paving like constantly.

So I was like, I don't wanna do it anymore. So yeah, especially those like thick, heavy. Yeah. So I was actually sending you a few photos at the start one and I was like, this doesn't like, yeah. Big, big amounts and what we're doing was like, and it was just me, like it wasn't really anybody else. It was like maybe two other people were doing huge like thousand square meters.

Like I like, nah, it must've been pretty jarring. Was it going from our little humble resi job with a crew of three, just slow and steady to a full on commercial outfit. Yeah. Yeah. Well that's like looking at that like it was like, I didn't even think of it till I now come back as well. Like it was come from yeah, like three people to, then we had well I can't remember.

It was, it was a fair few by then, but yeah, we'd have a group of 10 people and it was like. It just seemed normal. Still now actually. Yeah. It's gonna be interesting for you 'cause Yeah, we'll get to it. But sort of your plan now, I'm really excited for you to be able to sort of slow down and Mm.

Do what you want to do. Definitely slowed down a fair bit since I left there. That kids part. Well you've actually had a bit of a break. Yeah, I about two months off actually since I left out LA Yeah, that's a great thing to do too. Just to reset and take a bit of time. Mm, yeah, well it was good 'cause yeah, made me want to go back to work 'cause I was a bit bored.

Yeah, that's actually true. I mean, I didn't get bored but I had a few weeks off last year around Italy and I think having that reset in your adult life is, is really good. 'cause you can actually realize that no, I've actually got a pretty good life and I'm, I'm pretty ambitious and there's things that I wanna do.

It's not practical a lot of the time, but I think it is nice if you can somehow make it work. And just back in Adelaide now, so you also did a bit of time, you sort of found golf, didn't you? I did actually, yeah, because I went like again, went back to space after the after I left, I actually did my own thing for a little bit and then COVID came through and I sort of like had a fair bit of work.

It just disappeared overnight and I was like, we just go back a bit then. So I, yeah, I forgot about that. So. You wanted to try your own thing. I remember chatting to you about that. So how was that experience? So you've obviously had it Yeah. Four or five years in resi and then a few years in commercial. So you very well, you know, trade skills by then.

And that same thing about the apprentices knowing everything and yeah, I was one of those, ah, I should be able to make huge some money. Doesn't worry. It's easy to have been running jobs. And then I went at my, I was like, oh, it's actually not that. Yeah, there's a huge difference between being a good tradesman and then all the rest of it.

Yeah. But there's actually, it's really hard to learn that apart from doing it. Yeah. Well that's, I'm glad I did do it. 'cause like I ended up doing it for, I think it was like 10 months. Yeah. But then I was, I had a fair bit of not heats work, but I wasn't enough like to keep going. I didn't have to worry too much.

Yeah. And then that's when COVID came through. Yeah. And I literally had what was like maybe a month of work and then literally overnight they called me up and they're like, no, we can't do it. We can't do it. I was like, oh. I should, and I like sort of backed up real quick and then called my supervisor and they was like, Hey, is there a possibility that I can go back to space?

And he go, yeah, come straight away. Had you had any kids by then? No, not quite. Nah, nah. So Caitlyn, actually that was another point too. Kailyn was doing like a post over in Papua New Guinea or something. That's right. Yeah. But yeah, and I was like part myself at home and I was like, just working and we just bought a house actually as well, and then I was like, yeah, that's a fair bit to manage some, for some reason why I started my business.

I was, yeah, studying and renovating and doing it all at once as well. It's ridiculous. Yeah, it's, it's pretty intense, but how, I mean, I guess, yeah. What are some, some stuff that you learned from that first time round running your own business? You can't just bloody like just leave it till the last second.

That's for sure. Yeah, and doing a lot of running around, like pre-planning ahead was like, again, wasn't like, well that's where you don't learn to when you're just working for somebody as well. Like you don't really plan ahead till you're in charge or you are running your own stuff. So Yeah, for sure. I mean, even when you, if you were sort of, 'cause you would've been supervising teams when you were with space, I imagine, or you weren't.

Yeah, not at that time though. I was leading hand then, so I was more like a on hand like, like pretty much just doing all the work as well and being, you weren't like leading hand then? It wasn't really much. It was like maybe a couple of people you'd be like looking over but not really but disconnected from the office and the back end.

Yeah. Which is the stuff that you need to learn quick. Which I learned that later on too. Yeah. But it is hard to learn. I just think it's interesting to chat about, 'cause there's probably, there might be some apprentices listening who are considering starting a business or you know, want to go down that path.

I guess what's some stuff that you maybe wish you learned before you started your business that time? Just, well, like actually Yeah. Plan ahead. 'cause that will burn you by driving around as in your job scheduling or, yeah. Well, even more even yeah, the job scheduling and just like more your day.

It's like instead of rocking up to work and just getting, doing stuff done, I, I caught myself outta log going, oh, I forgot this. Oh, I have to go get this. Or then I'm like, literally half my dad drive around tools and yeah. So you pretty much plan ahead and just and then don't get, and maybe bring some money with you at the start and not just try to not just go out and just get angry and leave a job and then just, just start with no money.

I've never say it that way. Bring some money with you. Yeah, well save some money. I think that's a good idea. Just like I know what you mean. Maybe plan, maybe plan ahead. Not just go jump out. Like when you just one, one of your first thoughts and say Let's go, let's go do this. Well, yeah, that's a good point.

I know. Well, for me it was the next financial year that came up. That's what sort of kicked me off. I was like, oh i's neat and tidy. I'll just start at the start of financial year. So, mate, don't worry, I was a bit naive as well. I think you have to be a bit naive to start a business. Yeah. I think if you knew how much was involved and the hours you're gonna be doing at night, you would do it.

No, but there's a interesting like piece around running your own thing where it's really cool now I'm sitting across from you, you just gave me like a shirt with your logo on it and you know, you get to design that and you get to choose your clients, you know, to a point. Yeah. You can decide what work you want to do.

You can advertise yourself, you can employ people. There's a lot of autonomy, which I love about running a business. So, yeah, it's good that you tried it, learned some stuff, and then went back, I guess. And it might've been good for your old boss too, 'cause he might've went, oh, I'm, I'm actually better not take this guy for granted.

And then what happened then? Did he kind of give you a bit of a chance to manage more? Yeah, so I can't remember if it was, I dunno if it was before I left or when I came back, but there was a bloke would come over from a different landscape company when he employed and he came as a supervisor and I ended up working under him for a fa while and like literally he's known him like Michael Lynch.

So he is like unreal bloke. I've literal, literally followed him the whole time. Mm. And he literally, me and him would just pretty much do a whole site together. Like we don't even literally have. Maybe laborers when we didn't wanna do some work, like maybe doing the planting stuff that would just be like, but we literally did it from like ground up, like maybe do all the excavations, did all the pipelines, did all the main line, did, did everything ourselves, which was good.

We learned and just followed him the whole time. And then he ended up stitching me up and going in the office of being a project manager. Right. Let your hell and dry. Yeah. And he was literally, he was saying to me, I remember one of the last times he was on site, he was like, oh, I'm gonna, I'm thinking about doing a project managing job like a, with this company, but then it'll be like two years.

I was like, I'll stay on site for two years. Yeah. And then I was like, oh, sick. I'll just work on you for two years. Two weeks later he called. He comes back and goes, oh, oh, they're gonna gimme a job in the office as a project manager. So I've got two weeks to teach you how to be a supervisor. And I was like, what?

Whoa. And then, yeah, he literally two weeks and just left and then left me by like bus, like pretty much his whole job was like done. But then we ended up staying there with him. Yeah, he's he said project origin and then Yeah, it was sink or swim. Yeah, it was, it literally was, 'cause like at that same time, like he went into the office and then we went and did a big commercial job in the city.

I was on there for a supervisor and he ended up having a kid and then through much halfway through this job, massive job. Like I've never been like a big tier one building site and tell rules and all these other things. And then he is they're like, alright, he's gonna go have a month off.

This is yours Josh. You just, you can run this. I'm like, what? Yeah. So that was a good way to sink, to swim too, actually. 'cause that sort of made me like work, work my way up in there as well. Did you feel pretty s you must have felt pretty supported, I assume, with your, your boss and Yeah. And everything, which is important.

Yeah. Well like that's, that's Lynch's like a Michael Lynch's he stitched me up with that as well 'cause he pretty much left me with that. And he was like, well, here Josh would be fine and he would do it. And then he did the whole job, which is you learn a lots more, a lot, lot more with that sort of stuff.

So, yeah, like he, he actually helped me quite a lot in space, so yeah, it sounds like he really mentored you. Yeah, well he just still does yeah. But literally two I left. He was, I was always working underneath him. That's awesome. Yeah. A big shout out flinch. Shout out ly mate. No, that is good.

And that's important. It's actually, it is what you need and it makes sense. I'm sure you know who you've mentored many people as well. Like it's how the trade industry works. Like you gain skills, you acquire knowledge and you pass that on to, you know, the next people coming through. Yeah. So, yeah.

That's, that's awesome. But commercials obviously, yeah. Very different from resi work that's way different. Yeah. And I know like when you started doing it, you were a bit sort of, it was a bit jarring, wasn't it? Yeah, it was a bit of a shock. 'cause like you come from trying to do like backyards and everybody's we'll nitpick, like little things and stuff like that, but, mm, big commercial you can sort of get away with things like, yeah, like the paving's not quite right or.

Like some sort of garden beds that aren't the greatest or something, they'd just be like, oh, it's fine, we'll pick it up in the defects later. And I was like, mm, yeah, I don't, I wish that changed. I don't know why it is that way. I mean, I do It's timing. Yeah, because like they've got their schedules and have to get through it as well.

And then you got the the, the, what's it called, the council and stuff, having deadlines and stuff like that. And if you get over it, you go, you get fine and everything as well. So yeah, I think I've stayed away from commercial 'cause for all those reasons, like it just doesn't feel right to have to have so much unnecessary pressure.

I mean even doing resi work for builders can be a very similar kind of vibe. Like they just throw deadlines at you and can be a bit of a mess. But I just wish people would just slow down a bit. 'cause you're building something that's gonna be there for a long, long time. Yeah. So let's get it right. Yeah.

Well that's when you start rushing 'cause Yeah. Yeah. I probably took it too slow back in the day, but like I don't regret that. I'd rather do that and do try my best to get a good result than be like, come on boys, we've gotta get this done today. Yeah. Tell me about your green keeping experience, because I know that that was a exciting chapter of your life.

So it was, yeah. I, yeah. 'cause I left after another thing, I stayed for another two years and then left again. 'Cause I saw a green keeping job when I was over Christmas. 'cause I actually, actually, I went to Ba Boole in Tasmania. Oh. And I was playing golf. Then I saw all the dreamkeepers there and I was like, that'd be a sick job.

Look how happy they look. And I was like, they look so nice. And then I was playing a fair bit of golf. Oh, I started playing, actually was pretty much when I just started playing golf. So I was like, oh, addicted to it straight away. A DHD things. Yeah. Get sucked right in. Yeah. And yeah, I remember looking up and I was like, oh, I'm just gonna sit just look at all these jobs in Adelaide, see if there's any green keeper's jobs.

And then I found mine at teacher Gully and they're like actually played at Teacher Gully too. So it was like, well, perfect, I'll just apply for this one. And they ended up calling me back when I got back from it was over Christmas 'cause it was in there January. So, I came back and then they like offered me the job and I was like, oh.

And I was like, oh, done. And then I've been, I was working there for, I think I was only there for five months. Yeah. But the best job in the world. I remember chatting to you when you were applying and you'd you're asking my opinion. And I was like, mate, you're probably, yeah, definitely go for it.

Follow your, your heart, but it's gonna be tricky with the pay cut. Mm. And I can imagine that, was that a, that was a factor, I imagine? Yeah, so I had a, my first kid as well, so I was, we had a house kid. Which it wasn't, it wasn't too bad. Like it was just more we gotta pay for all the bills and everything like that.

But it was just more I couldn't do anything else. Yeah. And then I, and it ended up coming to it like, you didn't get a free membership when you worked there, which is the only good, if you were like the top bloke or the leading hand, you get like a, like a, like a golf membership and stuff, like for free.

And like the membership there, I think I was paying, I still 2,600 a year. Oh wow. And I think I was only getting, it was like $26 an hour at like greens keeping, it was like minimum 38 hours. You don't ever do overtime, or you did now and then, but you never, it was never justified enough. Yeah.

And then it was like, I was at the point of do I give up playing golf or. Yeah, I'll just go go somewhere else and keep playing golf as well. I like Yeah, I know that was a hard decision 'cause I've been to your house in Adelaide and you basically turned the backyard into a putting green and a driving net.

Yeah. That was sick. So you get well sick. So you clearly like you said, you got right into golf. Yeah. Still up a massive part of your identity. So I can see how it would've been appealing and in fact I've got friends that were electricians but worked as green keepers over in Canada. I dunno if I've told you, but they loved it.

Yeah. Like absolutely loved it. And there were some beautiful golf courses over there, but just like sitting on the mower, like manicuring lawns. Yeah. Like I reckon it would be cool. Oh, I remember one time I was, it was literally like hammering down a rain and I was, I was cutting the fairway, like the right on the fairway and I was like getting soaked and I was like, I'm still really enjoying, this is five o'clock in the morning too.

And I was like, I'm still enjoying this. I'm cold, but I'm like this cruising down. Like this is, this is sick. This is way better than what I paid me. Well it was, yeah, that's what it was sort of justifying, but I was like, I don't know if fucking just, I afford to. Yeah, live as well. 'cause I think it's probably half, was it like paycheck?

Yeah. Yeah. Because I was, yeah, I think when it was like close to a hundred when I was in space and then I dropped it and it is hard to live from like from half half and then you just gotta drop it again And yeah, it's a really hard thing. The whole like, I don't know, the apprentices get paid to learn is how you can justify it, but it's still a low income to get by on, especially if you are like, you know, in your late twenties, thirties or even older and yeah, you're trying to support a family.

Like it's, it's really hard. I don't know the answer like, 'cause I was on the other end where you're employing apprentices and particularly young apprentices, like they might be a fair bit slower and can't contribute as much and you do lose them a day a week. Yeah. So you know, it's kind of hard to justify paying them more on the other side.

Mm-hmm. So, I dunno what the answer is. I know the government right now are trying to offer more incentives. I think they just announced like a five grand sign up or something. That's all right. They used to do tool allowances when you were doing yours, I think. Yeah. Yeah. So they do a few things. I think they could probably do more.

'cause there's gonna be a skill shortage for sure. Well we're, we're gonna struggle soon. There's not many people coming in. Yeah, absolutely. It's gonna be, it's gonna be tricky to know. Yeah. What's gonna come next With Adelaide, actually with the the apprenticeships, a lot of people went through with that commercial company.

I dunno if it's just commercial over there, but they literally could do their whole apprenticeship in a year and just do book on the bookwork. Oh wow. So they went once a month and they just did, literally, I think it was, I can't remember what it was, but they did literally one, once a month. They just, all they did to just fill out books, just fast track it.

And I didn't like it because there was a full, there was a few fully qualified like landscapers there. What I, and I'm like, I've had apprentices would like way further ahead of you. And then if they're fully qualified and they've got the tickets, the same, same as it work. I've got I'm just like, how does that work?

How was the experience for you on that note, going from being an apprentice to managing apprentices? I did struggle. Yeah. At the start. I, yeah, I ended up getting better at at the end I sort of, I took patience. Yeah. Because like when I first started as well, like being a supervisor, I was running job like pretty decent sized jobs and I was like stressed as that.

And then I've got these kids that just don't care and then they don't wanna learn. And then I'd like getting quite angry. Yeah. And like just, I probably get a bit of a hard time. Some of the boys probably would bring that up, but yeah yeah. It's hard. It is hard though, like it's, I think no one teaches leadership enough.

No. And you can have good mentors. That can be an example, but even that, that's not teaching you how to do it. That's just you observing it and trying to manipulate it into something else. So. I don't know if there's an opportunity there for the course to sort of somehow include more around leadership, but there's yeah.

It's not a skillset set, people teach. No, it's actually, 'cause I'm actually coming from you were a very chill person and, and Michael Lynch as well. He was very, you guys are very like, calm and relaxed and stuff. I'm like the complete opposite. Like I was Yeah. Like fiery and just be you. Yeah. I think you, you did have a bit of a, I don't even wanna say temper.

I, I think things can frustrate you. Definitely. Oh yeah, yeah. You're definitely a lot calmer now, but that's, yeah, that's fine. That's just how you were made up. But I dare say, I know you well enough to say that. If people were frustrating you, there's always a reason behind it. Yeah. Yeah. It was never like, I'll just be angry for no reason.

Exactly. Yeah. You're not just that old typical, like stereotypical tra that's just, you know, no one wants to be around. I think. Yeah. If people, if you're telling people to sort of, you know, pull their head in or pay attention, there'd be a reason for it. Yeah. Which it's like what I ended up at the end, like some of the boys are like.

I tried to get a few, you could tell which ones are actually good and what they learn and you just try to suck 'em, get 'em close to you. Yeah. And then yeah, like it's, yeah, it's hard. Like it's, it's hard to manage people but don't wanna actually care anymore. Which, just another big thing with commercial, there's a lot of people coming in but don't actually care.

They just wanna come there for the job and they go yeah, I guess they can kind of hide behind. I don't wanna sound so negative, but they can kind of hide behind the bodies, I guess. Whereas Yes, especially if there's just three people on a resi site. Like you can't just sort of hide. Yeah, you can't because Yeah, you are, it's only three people on site.

Or there's one of the jobs I had, I reckon I had about 20, 20 people. Yeah. And I reckon I lost I lost half of 'em. I don't know. And it was one of the biggest jobs I've done and I was like, I've lost and I was already stressed, but then I was, didn't see it. Someone's gone for a piss and they've been going for an hour or something.

Yeah. He's like, where is he? He's I've seen him all day. And he's oh no. And sometimes like that people just go home. Like over that time, just like, where, where'd it go? That's not the stress I want in my life, that's for sure. Yeah. I admire what you did, man. Like it's a huge jump to go from.

You, me, Gav, it's 20 people. That's huge, man. You should reflect on that. Like it's, yeah. Well, I, I, when I look at that now, I always think of that job as well. Like it was one of the biggest jobs I did, it was like for, it was Sarah's buildings. Sarah's, yeah. It was a big commercial T one builder site.

It was like a big super school. It was getting built for like the government was, I know what, paying for most of it actually. That was pretty much peak COVID pretty much came, came back. Yeah. And yeah, I think, I think it was like four mil. Whoa. Yeah, it was big and it was one of my biggest ones I didn't had, and I would literally, I don't think I touched a tool, that whole job.

And I was there for a year and it was literally like managing people the whole time. And yeah, it's, it, it's, it's hard to like change from Yeah. What you're saying, like you're coming from us to that and then. Especially with now knowing what you just said, how quick it happened. Like you still that two weeks mate, you're running this.

Yeah. That's, that was kind of your learning curve. Like a lot of people go to uni for this man, like there's, you know, building management courses at uni that are managing $4 million projects, so Yeah. Right. Yeah. You, you really did get thrown in the deep end. Yeah. Which was good. We'll give a space as well.

'cause like they literally purposely came at the right time. Yeah. They were slowly building up and I sort of just groove it and then Yeah. Like they, like they, there's a good company space. I wouldn't like this, anything like that. But yeah, it's, yeah, I enjoyed working there, but I. I don't like the like commercial side of it as well, so I don't think many people do.

I know quite a few landscapers in Canberra. I won't mention like company names or anything, but like the ones that do commercial and resi stuff, I know all their staff prefer the resi stuff. Mm. And it's like a no brainer. Like you are doing small, detailed work, you know, home rather than Yeah. Just big bulk work in, you know, a park or something.

Yeah. It's hard. It's hard at work, but yeah, I always said there's some of those, like some apprentices come in and be like, oh I wanna learn all landscaping and stuff like that. And like I always used to say like here's probably not the best place. If you wanna learn like actually how to do landscaping, go to a small company.

Yeah. 'Cause you're not gonna like with that. At the end of it, we weren't doing anything would be. Managing most of the subbies, like subbies. Did the concrete, do the paving, do the, like asphalt. All we did was pretty much like big garden beds. Irrigation. Irrigation was a big one. This we learned all that.

The molting garden beds, like soft scaping. Yeah, just big, soft and then like rubble paths and stuff that like, which was good from my point of view to learn all like the, the hardscaping, like prep and machine work because I know you're bloody good on a machine. Yeah. We use. We use that. That's the best.

One thing I reckon since I've been there was learning how to use the machine properly. Because I remember, yeah, I didn't teach you anything working with you matting around the whole fence line for an hour. Like just, oh, like I'm never doing this again. But so that's probably something that I really asked you much about.

So what did you learn, mate? What can you teach? People about using a machine? Oh, just you can do everything with a digger if you really want. I thought like when, when I moved to Adelaide that bobcats were amazing and they that's you need everything. When as soon as I saw that people can use like excavators properly, it's literally the best way to do it.

You literally can box out the whole backyard and not have to touch a bloody mad. Like I think we had a 0.9 tonner called Scoop dog and I think we pretty much just used it to crack soil over scoop scoop. I don't think we really used it to dig much. Like I said, we used the bobcat. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think we, we ever put the mud bucket on when I was there.

I don't reckon we did either. Just the three, the three, two teeth literally just to open up the clay and improve soil and garden beds. Yeah. Yeah, I remember you telling me that and sending me photos and in fact, I think you came back to Can and helped me out one day. Oh yeah, I did. Yeah. That was before I started.

'cause I came back to see, talk to you because I like, yeah. What are you doing next? And I just watched you and I was like, oh, that's how you do it. Yeah, yeah. You are like, yeah. Yeah. It's so much easier. I like, yeah, no one taught me. Sorry, mate. I probably could have they, you don't learn that stuff in like residential 'cause like they, yeah, they're not like from commercial.

Like some of those operators in like space are unreal. Yeah. But it's an hour thing. And I guess again, like someone taught them as well no doubt you've taught a lot of people how to operate machines properly. Now I've try. I'm not, I'm not awesome. But yeah, if you, I can get by. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. That's cool. So that's obviously a few things that you learned. And I guess touching on the irrigation, 'cause I know that you're basically relaunching now is Hooper Irrigation and Landscaping. And I know we've spoken a bit lately that you just really enjoy irrigation. So what, what sort of stuff did you learn while working with Space or Open Adelaide about irrigation, I guess?

Well, I learned pretty much like a whole different side of irrigation when I moved there. Like from, like when I left Canberra, it was literally our all 19 mil poly small irrigation box. You shoving a gear box and that was getting, and you come from like a

tap. Yep. And then we went there and then they showed like a hold from, we were like, like you got 63 Oh.

Which I thought was massive at the start too. 63 mil pipe, like mainline going through to a whole system and then six, 600 build deep pull and then like solenoids coming up into it and all fusion welding, which I sort of quite enjoyed as well. Like it's pretty easy, but it's like something different than then.

A lot of people dunno how to do it. I was about to ask you, how would you explain fusion welding to someone that doesn't know what it is? Oh, it just, yeah. How do I explain that? It's a machine, isn't it? Yeah, it's just like a literally, it's like a small box actually. They come in different sizes.

Yeah. But and you just put 'em like, you have to just prepare the pipe and scrape it off and make it so they're clean and put these pipes on. Then you just put it's like the two little prongs you put it in and you put a coat in and it'll it'll melt pretty much like inside the fitting.

It has a metal copper thing and it would just melts the pipe onto it and it's literally sits so it doesn't actually like ever leak. It's like it's better than those, you know, like push fittings. You can Yeah, yeah. Like twist on will never actually work, ever. Yes. Yeah. It's like that, it's just pretty much a replacement of them then just never will break.

Or unless you do it like in incorrectly. But is that common practice? I feel like it should be, yeah. Well in the commercial, it has to be. Yeah. 'cause like you got which is another thing when we went to the, the specs, there's. They have massive amount of plans and literally if you don't know how, like you can literally, if you don't dunno what it is, it'll just be write it down everywhere.

It'll tell you in the plans it would, yeah, it would have a full like detail of what even like you'll have a picture of the solenoid box and this is how you have to have it. Yep. What size, like what fittings and, yeah. Very different to what we worked with. Yeah. Yeah. And like all the scale plans and even like at the end of it, they had these rovers that would be able to set out places for like your, for your sprinklers.

So if you wanna have a sprinkler, like to have like on the ovals, you sprint and put on the. So you obviously have a map with a sprinkle plan and then it would like beep when you're at three days. I you literally, the whole plan you have with a site and it just literally marries over and that, yeah.

You can put down and just literally put down, you can do heights and levels and stuff too. I never understood that, but yeah. Yeah. There would've been so much you learned from that, that you can incorporate now. Yeah. And it's, it's hard now 'cause you don't have any of the bloody Yeah. The gear, but, but is it expensive?

It must be a bit, I guess, yeah, the, the gear is pretty, like the fusion board is, I think it's a couple grand, but they all like this. The cheap one is, but then all like the, like pipe fitting, like scrapers and stuff like that. Like it's three grand for like the whole set. But yeah. But it depends how big you, if I was gonna do commercial stuff, I'd buy all that stuff again, but at the moment I'd rather do backyards and so I love irrigation as well.

It was one of my favorite things 'cause it's like you kind of get to slow down for a bit. Like landscaping's kind of go, go, go, you know, moving a lot of materials from one place to another and you know, yeah. Obviously. Cubic meters of everything. But with irrigation, you do have to I've got many memories where I was sitting in Reese Irrigation with a, you know, pen and pencil and figuring out where the sprinkles are gonna go and how many zones and all that sort of stuff.

And I used to enjoy that. And then you come back on site and you see it all come together and then at the end of the job, you turn the sprinkles on. There's like that sense of satisfaction. So I guess, how are you gonna be able to bring that commercial knowledge into your resi practice? What's your plan?

Are you gonna be able to do irrigation plans or are you gonna sort of work with companies or have you thought much about it or not really. It's more, I would like to, like I doing the irrigation plays is not really like that necessary for like backyards, unless you're doing like a big one.

'cause you can mostly get like a whole backyard of three to four solenoids. That's a bigger one anyway. Yeah. But like I would like to work with other companies and stuff. Like I even, I wouldn't want to like, sub you out to a bigger company, do like their main lines again later on.

Mm-hmm. If if I've got the opportunity to do it. But, just in yeah. It's just like you can, you can make it a lot neater. That's what I saw. Like when I remember we like not doing what we used to do, but was not nothing like that. Neat. Like when you be able to open up the so oak box and you can see it's it's neat.

Oh, I bet. And drip lines how we used to like the zigzags. We are big grids. And then you actually see that it covers the whole Yeah. The whole garden bed before we put the plants in. Yeah. Because we used to put the plants in, then run it around to every plant. Yeah. What we used to like, what we did was grids and then it just looked nice and went.

Yeah. Yeah. Well it's, I think it's the, when I used to get irrigation plans done by Reese Irrigation, they did the straight lines in there. They would do the drawings with the straight lines, every 300 mil or whatever it was. And that is best practice. And I learned a lot from those designs. As you said, like the detail on the plan does show best practice.

Yeah. Which is good to know for sure. Like it definitely makes a lot of sense. Yeah. Like you should be evenly irrigating and you can see when like actually big what's it called? Like playgrounds and stuff like that. Like you see the places, but like you see they've done it pretty dodgy drip line and like it's poking out and so, and the government's dead.

Yes. Then you see one where it's like. What's done properly? Yeah. Well, we've done a few because it's like it's done really well and then the garden beds like just overgrown. Yeah. It seems like ridiculous. And they're just like, holy crap. How does this happen? This is perfect watering, like irrigation and soil prep.

Yeah, of course. Yeah, of course. Especially in Canberra. But the irrigation technology's come a long way in my short career in landscaping too, like in the last 15 years as far as I used to have to get a, like a rain sensor and wire it in and Yeah. Used, still have to manually program it, but now it's so common to get either Bluetooth or wifi.

Yeah. And automatic, like talks to the weather stations and stuff and. So it's pretty good now. Yeah. And pretty affordable. Yeah. Well it's actually yeah, since like we, when, when I first started with view, yeah. It is changed so much. Yeah, like you have, like when I bought was like the beehive one for my house.

Yeah. And like just, I used to just turn the sprinklers on, just put it, well it wasn't even there. I dunno if it's on or not. But I remember doing that too when had a house mate. I was like, mate, watch this. That's do that. So come past and turn it on. But are there brands that you are that you sort of stick with or you're not too Don't, I'm not too fast.

Like especially if they, in new technology, I'm happy to try something differently. Like if they, if they've proven that that's it's good, I, I'll use it. Yeah. Yeah. I was always the same. I just relied on Reese Irrigation. Yeah. To base. I just say, look mate, what's your, what one comes back the least? What solenoid do you see, you know, come back the least for replacing, I guess.

So you're back now. I guess the question first of all is what brought you back to Canberra? Same thing. The wife is an army, so we've, she's been posted back here again and yeah. So it is. I dunno how long we're gonna be here for, but Yeah. And your family's here too, obviously, which would've made the decision easier.

Yeah, there was definitely gonna be, we didn't really wanna come back to the cold, but yeah. This winter's been rough, man. You came back at a real hard time. Yeah, right in the middle of the winter as well, because Adelaide's it's still cold, but obviously does it get minuses and stuff? Nah, unless you go out and like the vineyard or like further out outside, like just outside Adelaide.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. And you had a, you had a nice spot there in the suburbs too, so it must have been a tricky decision. But yeah, I think it's good to have you back. Nah, it was good because we wanted it was a big one for more our daughter. Yeah. 'Cause around how old is she now? She's three and a half.

So she, yeah. And all my cousins, all her cousins are there. So coming up to school age, like life feels, well. Adelaide, I'll ask you, did life feel easier in Adelaide or Canberra or pretty similar sort of size? To be honest, I can't really remember living here. Yeah, that's fair. So that's fair. Most of my, yeah.

My full adult life has been in Adelaide. Yeah. Since Yeah. Well I left when I was 26. Six. Yeah. And was, yeah. You were just winging it till then? Yeah, pretty much. Yeah. Just had no plan, nothing. Just don't wear everyone. I was kinda laughing before to myself 'cause I've had a similar thought in my mid twenties where you're kind of like, you're thinking about what, like changing your career in your mid twenties and you're freaking out.

Yeah. And you're like, oh I can't, my resume doesn't have anything else except this. You're so young. Yeah. No one cares. No, no one cares if you're gonna change your career and go you a bloody golfer or whatever. Like you can do whatever you want. Actually saying that because I left, I left the twice and did different things and they still took me in.

So, yeah. Yeah. As long as you leave that door open and you respect people, then yeah. You, you're always gonna be able to go back. Yeah. And that's, it's a good thing for people to know I think. 'cause it encourages, I think, to do the thing, whatever the thing is. Yeah. Go and give it a go. And you can always come back to the position you're in.

It's very easy to get stuck doing something you don't enjoy for like years and years and then all of a sudden you're, yeah. Kind of regretting it, I think. Yep. So. You're back, you've got your own a BN registered for Hoopers, sorry, Hooper Irrigation and Landscaping, which I think is cool because especially in Canberra there are some irrigation companies like Easy Rain Waterland, but there's not heaps.

No, I did contemplate going to applying for few of them, but then I just didn't, yeah. I just, I still I, I really expect like what they're doing and stuff that, but I just dunno want to fall away for a big, big company like that again. Well, off the back of what we literally just said you can try this, give it a crack.

Yeah. And in a year or so, I'm sure you'd be able to walk into a job there if they're advertising and Yeah. Tell 'em what you've done and it'd be actually really appealing for an employer to know that you've done your own business, I reckon as well. Mm-hmm. And to know that you're basically, you want, you know, a job now and you don't really wanna do your own business, but, to bring all the skillset, not only around like your trade skills, but the communication skills and the management skills. Mate, they'd be lucky to have you at one of those companies, so I'm sure you'll be fine. Or like you obviously a commercial landscape company could do with a skilled irrigator.

That's what another one I thought about doing to as well. 'cause yeah, or I was think about doing a big commercial company again, but I just didn't want to I've always wanted to do my business and after, since I did do my own one and like I, which I sort of didn't leave then 'cause I thought we would've been fine.

'cause as soon as COVID sort of like cleared it, everybody called me back and I was like sitting there, but I was like, I can't just do that this space. They literally just going back up oh, I'm gonna go again. But yeah, I felt bad like leaving it 'cause I was like, I was doing all right and then, yeah.

But So you reckon if COVID didn't come, you potentially would've kept kicking on? I, I definitely would've. Yeah. Yeah, right. Because I wasn't in any like stress. I was like, I was thinking, I was even looking at gonna a machine in his place and looking at like buying a bobcat and stuff like that as well.

But then, yeah, it just freaked me out 'cause the whole world just pretty much. Fair crap himself. So, yeah. Yeah. That's very fair. Well, that's good to know. That's actually nice for me to hear that. It wasn't like you stopped because you just didn't wanna do it. You basically kind of forced your hand.

Yeah. Which I know. And like I did talk to a few people and they was like, why'd you go? And I was like, well, my situation was like a house. And I mean, I was, didn't wanna lose anything. So, yeah. That's a hard one. But with what you're doing now, what is the reason why, I guess you've decided to put irrigation first?

I enjoy that way more. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like it, I just the boys always thought it was weird, but I would like stare at sprinkles when I was like driving past and I was like, well look at those ones and then that lawn's gonna look so good for golf. It literally like that. It was just, that's a big one from coming to the golf course and just like seeing how a nice grass can be.

Like my lawn was like unreal when I at home. Yeah. But just, I just like when you're working, 'cause you do so much with the irrigation, the, where it's. Big main line for a day doing the rises coming up and you're doing the back of the solenoids and everything. You're doing that for ages and then you gets buried and people just what have you been doing for the last like week?

And then, and then all of a sudden you turn it on and you're just like. This is water pumping out everywhere. And it's like the, actually, the biggest one I liked was when the lawn was all prepped, like there's no lawn on it and there's all the soil, it's dry, and then you turn the sprinkles on and just, you can see there literally no dry spots on the perfect pattern.

Yeah. And you're like, looks good. I, I'm with you, man. I think if I was to stay in a trade, irrigation would be high on my list. Yeah. I think it's easier on the body. I know it's still very physical, but compared to using nomatic Yeah. And paving stuff. Yeah. And lifting pavers, like at least you're carrying pipes and sprinklers and instead of, you know, really heavy things and pushing burrows.

So I think there's a longevity piece in it. Like it'll be more sustainable hopefully for you. And I really do think there's a massive gap in the Canberra market for it, particularly if you're able to subcontract into smaller landscape companies. Like I know there's a couple of small companies doing it, but not a lot.

No. And particularly if you offer the maintenance as well, because I can tell you that that is something that I. It's hard to go back to all the time because it could be an hour or two, but like when you're trying to hustle Yeah. As you remember. Yeah. It's hard to find that hour in your day or to get that staff member to swing past that job that's on the other side of town, just to fix a sprinkler that, you know, the client might have clipped the top off with a mo or Yeah.

You know, there might be a leak in a pipe joint or, yeah. And also like we've. Residential style. Like it's not like you don't do the whole lot. Like I know like they probably do have like plans and stuff, but Yeah, we've, I dunno if they, Reese give used to give us plans. Did they? Or? Well, I used to work with Reese sometimes.

Yeah. But they weren't super detailed. No. But even then, like in garden beds, like no flush valves, no air release valves. Like they just then I didn't realize like when I was doing back and was like, oh, you don't need it. But to be fair, I think one of the first, like when I first started was just Gavin and I, I remember because I was relying on Reese for their professional kind of standards and they did have like release valves and flush valves.

Yeah. And I remember using 'em, I was like, this seems like overkill. And then I think I might've spoken to a few landscapers oh, what? No, we don't do that. So I was just like, oh, if no one else is doing it, then I won't bother. But I think best practice is best practice for a reason. Right. Even like filters on the back of solenoids.

Yeah. Yeah. Most people don't even put them on, but then then they worry, wonder why the pipes are clogged. Do those I really like using those anky, clip solenoid valve banks. Do you rate them or you think they're Oh, I don't wait. I reckon they look neat and they look good and stuff that I don't know.

Like I like even with because I don't I reckon they look the best. Like they look, they look neat and they're doing, it's the best way to be able to change the solenoid as well. That's what I like about 'em. Yeah, that's a good way. 'cause like with that, like it's coming from the PVC and you have to cut the whole pipe and like even then sometimes like you'd probably become too close and then you wouldn't be able to put the OID back in.

So you have to pull like all the whole lot and put back in. So I've seen people Yeah, they's all pipe. They bugger all PVC between the valves and they have to basically redo the eight valve thing. Yeah. And then you're digging in a whole solo box up again. Yeah. Mm-hmm. So I guess one question that's a bit backwards that I wanna ask you is, what do you think people get wrong with irrigation?

Well that Yeah, yeah, yeah. With that, like they're just, they'll just chuck it in and they don't they go, oh yeah, we should water. And they'll walk away and they might, they might not last a year. Yeah. But then when that comes back around and then the, like some sort of points, like when they do loops everywhere, you can get a kink somewhere and you might get half the guard beds not getting watered.

So that's where the point of the two headers each side Yep. Need to be constant water flowing through. Yep. And it like the solenoid with the, the filters and stuff as well. If it goes through, it gets stuck and then you clean 'em out and then it least, and you know, the solenoids, oh, the, the lines are all clean and everything too.

Yeah. Just poor, yeah, like poor connections and stuff like that as well. What about pressure? Yeah. Yeah. That's What did you learn about water pressure and, well, we had the pressure test from that stuff as well, so we had the pressure test before it actually, the council would come past and checked everything so that you'd have to do it like to their specs or that literally inspect it before we could bury Bury it.

Yeah. So they'd come past and check it and you had to do a pressure test to hold it at a certain pressure to go through. Which is something I might bring in 'cause Yeah. Yeah, bio pressure tester as well and go through it as well. And then, and then you just go race bond, like this is what you've got all got.

Or you get with a booklet and you sort of su it out with yourself. And anyway, because it changes a lot especially even in Canberra, depending on what suburb you're in, your water pressure and flow rate can be two or three times different. So obviously you can do a bucket test as a basic way, but there's probably more scientific ways to do it.

Yeah. We can use the KP now. The pressure on, yeah. Yep. Which is probably Mira and, and if you give it to them like Reese and they set out a plan for you. Yeah. They'd be able to set the whole thing with all that as well. Yeah. So Reese irrigation are really good. They actually don't charge for that. No. So you can give 'em the flow rate, the landscape design to scale, and they'll map it all out and do a takeoff for you.

Mm. And I'm sure there's other irrigation companies to do that as well. I've just always worked with Reese. Yeah. For people doing their own systems at home. I've mentioned it to them as well, because I just say, look, if you can just map it out, do a bucket test, here's the link on how to do a bucket test, send them a scale drawing and they'll help you get it.

90% there yeah, you still have to build the system, but at least you know what you're doing. Like you just cutting and pasting things together and test it before you bloody bury it. Yeah, yeah. Ly instead of digging it up again and all in nail solenoid. Because you're right, actually, even the trenches, like I used to always say that, and sometimes it got skipped and it's annoying because.

Yeah, it's a lot of work to dig the trenches, run the PVC glue, the joins, but it's, that's the time to test it. Mm. Let the glue dry test the next day, and then it's gonna be a lot easier to fix a, a joint if it's blown than later on. So, yeah. That's a, that's a good tip as well. Yeah, I mean, there's, there's a few things there.

It is a trade it's not something we're gonna be able to teach in a 10 minute conversation, but like it's a, yeah, there's a lot to learn, but it's also, I think what I would like to say is just it shouldn't be overwhelming, should it? Nah, no, it's not, it, and it's not that difficult. Yeah. It's like, it's like you just need to know.

The, the main part of it, if the solenoids and like your pressure, like your pressure and you're pretty fine after that, just to make sure you don't overload it with sprinklers. That's like you pressure reduces stuff as well. And if you've got like the, you're overloading the a drip line, it blows out everywhere and you're wondering why that's all happening.

Yep. Pressure reduces or pressure regulators and Yeah, because there's like you've seen the bloody drip lines would blow up. Like they blow up like really a balloon size before they go and then there's that much water go. I haven't seen that actually. No, no. Yeah. Yeah, like the 25 mil pipe, it literally blows up Yeah.

Yeah. Wow. That's a lot of pressure. Yeah. I guess you're used to dealing with heavy Yeah. Heavy pressure. Yeah. Big pressure. Whereas, yeah, not so much for the, the resi houses around, but even then some of, some of 'em might like. Oh, for sure. I mean, but look, regardless, best practice, I think what we've just touched on, we sort of jumped all over the place, but yeah, like checking your pressure, designing your system, like they're two good things at the start that people can do.

Oh yeah. And it makes things a lot easier. Like my biggest pet peeve is like people get all these landscaping done, all lawn and garden beds, and they're like, and they get told, just say, oh no, I don't want irrigation. I'll just hand water it. And then you come back three months later and it's all dead.

Yeah, because they, they're all that likely just be a patch of nice green grass. And then you see where that's where the sprinkler has been sitting on the grass. It's like you pay less money for all this landscaping. You've got this bloody ugly. $10. Yeah. Irrigation thing will sits on your lawn. Like why?

But you're gonna forget to turn on in three days and then it's gonna die. It's a hard one. I think for me here at home, I wanna make sure I've got at least 20, 30,000 liter of water and then I'll tap into that. And guilt free. Be able to water. Yeah. The veggies, the lawn, the, the flowers, like everything. But it does chew through a fair bit of water as well.

Mm-hmm. Because we've obviously been through, you know, drought periods and whatnot and Yeah. If you want to have a manicured lawn, like it does chew a lot of water, which I think certain people, if they're trying to be more environmentally conscious, are probably not happy with, but I guess that's where you get a rain tank and Yeah.

You know, to worry about it, I guess. Did you, what was your, your water source would always be different, I guess, or was it mostly town water? Yeah, it was mostly off the main, yeah. Yeah. And you had to get a plumber in to put the double check valve in. Yeah. You'd need that regular kind of reliable pressure and, and water source though.

I mean, we've kind of covered it in many ways, I think, but I'm not sure if you have a specific answer, but what, what do you think has been the biggest challenge in starting our own business? First working for someone else? Not having any of the stuff, like the big stuff like Yeah. Which you don't really think about until you you do your own again well, last couple days I've been running.

Soil from my the house to the and it's, it's taken so much longer, like thinking, oh, it's not gonna be too bad. It was like 22 ton in trailers is pretty, it's a fian and yeah. Yeah, I knew it was that much. I just think it was like, ah, it won't be that bad. But yeah. Yeah, man, I I've sold everything and even doing small jobs now, well, I sold a lot of it to you.

Just borrow it back. I'm lucky, but yeah, literally I wanna do brick edging this weekend, and you're like, oh, I just need a tr strings, Peggy. I've got nothing. Which is all right. Like I know that that's the case, but Yeah. You take it for granted, don't you? Yeah. Like just having. Trucks, machines, trailers full of everything.

It's very easy to take it for granted. Lasers level. Yep. That's, I, I didn't even think about it till like last week when we bought one. And you like, you do, like you use it all the time. Like we set out like all the heights and then you'd just be like, I went to go do and with a string line a peg. I was like, no, this is too much.

And then, 'cause I was digging out and just trying to set that up and I ended up buying one, like two and a half grand just for. A good laser level. Yeah. That's the other thing. Tools are not cheap. And again, like it's a thing that I think tradies aren't, yeah. They're not respected enough for how much they need to know and how much stuff they need to invest to be able to do their job.

Yeah. That, that adds up pretty quick. Even setting the business up, how much stuff you actually you're paying for before even, even get money in. Absolutely. Look, I think we've touched on this a fair bit, but I guess what's surprised you the most about running your own business? Like whether it's like reflections on how it's worked with your family or your, I don't know, your own confidence or satisfaction.

Is there anything that kind of stands out that you were surprised about with sort of running your own business for a while? Bit a tricky question, but it is pretty. Yeah. I don't know. Might not be anything. Nah, I, yeah, like I think more now, is the more, is surprised that I actually know a lot more things.

Like you don't actually think when you're working with all the people, you still rely on all people, but then when you're like sitting and actually thinking about it, it's oh, I can actually do that. It's not Yep. Yeah. Yeah. That's why I kind of, that's I agree. 'cause it's the same. I think that's something that is another one of those things you don't really know until you've done it.

Yeah, it's self-confidence I think. Yeah. And then that's a hard one too. 'cause you like, oh, I'm not gonna do that. I might not not do that job because like I can't, I can't do it. But you probably can. Well you gotta, I mean, I guess looking back to your time in Adelaide there, like you were kind of supported.

In a big way with your old company, but you did the work. Like you, it was still you doing all that management and you know, running the projects. You just had the backing of someone that probably gave you that extra bit of confidence. Yeah, and it was good 'cause you'd be had to call up like, Hey, is this like something, what's okay?

Yeah. And then you'd be like, yeah, you'd be like, most time would be like, yeah, that's fine. Yeah. You'd never like, no, that's wrong. You're doing something wrong. You need to do it this way. It's most time it's like you just, it's, and sometimes you just call 'em as well, you just be like, oh, just even you though, you know, you're right.

You just want them to say yes. I guess the other part, the other side of that, the reason I mentioned it too is like the flip side of that is when you work for yourself, and especially if you haven't got employees, like there's not really that person there. To bounce ideas off. No. Whereas for me, like I've always found other landscapers and, you know, especially the Canberra landscape community.

Really good for that. And I've mentioned it before on this podcast, but I'm sort of reminding you again, like I've added you to that sort of local landscape chat and it's, it's just such a great place to throw ideas around. Or for me, another good, just being, talking to suppliers and subcontractors. I think as long as you're always never too proud, which I know like you specifically and not, but just anyone listening, you just, if you're not too proud to just ask the questions that you might think are the, you know, dumb questions, then you're always gonna learn stuff.

People will help you anyway. A hundred percent like, yeah, again, I've said it many times, but especially in this industry, I think there's so many people that want to just help you out. Yeah. It seems to be really good for that. Mate, I want to know bit of reflection now, so before we jump into a few maybe rapid fire questions at the end, we'll see how that goes.

But looking back now. What would you tell that young apprentice that sort of first walked into revive landscapes? Or start and work with Matt? Maybe listen more instead of thinking, you know, everything. Yeah, I think that's probably pretty common. Yeah. It's it is a hard, because like you always think back, you just I wish I'd just pay attention more of that.

'Cause there's a fair few things. Like Matt, Matt does a lot. Yeah. And I wish I like that time I was with him, sat down, like actually watched him and did it probably more instead just 'cause I was more like back then because you got Kane and Lewis and they were like, it was good to bro, good fun bit of bros.

Like it's fun to hang out with. But yeah, it was more hang out with them and hang did them instead of actually pay attention and do the work. 'cause Matt does everything. Yeah. He and he's good at it too, so. Yeah. But yeah, I wish, I just actually I think 'cause I I wasn't fully passionate when I first started like landscaping.

It was just like, it was there like, like most kids like the job. It's like that's what we gonna do. But like now they look back and I actually did enjoy it. And it's just, I wish I actually just. Nutted down and actually pay attention more instead of having to learn it later on. Yeah. Yeah. That's very common.

I think, Josh, I think there'd be a lot of people that would say something the same. Many different careers as well. But I think you nailed it. I think if you don't have a good reason behind why you're doing it, it is very easy to get distracted or disheartened or not care. And I think employers see that too.

Yeah. That's the frustration of having staff. Like you've already touched on it, you saw it in the apprentices you had in your site. Yeah. And the ones that aren't, that are disappearing or not there, they're not interested. No. And that's the frustration and I dunno how that'll change in the industry, but it's it's a really, really hard one.

Like obviously we all want people to be more interested and and passionate. Like it's better for the person 'cause they're enjoying what they're doing, but it's also better for the manager 'cause they're engaged. Yeah. It makes it a lot easier when you're on site as well. Yeah, they actually care. There's a few ones on our site, like there's some didn't care, but then there's ones that actually they don't like really want like the landscaping side, like how I was.

But they were actually pretty keen to learn stuff. I think it was more as well. And if you get a bit of time that they actually cared, and then they end up liking landscaping. Yeah. That's another song as well. So. It is hard 'cause I dunno what you're gonna do with young kids. Like it's hard to teach young kids to Yeah.

Care about what they wanna do. So I, I would've been similar to you. I mean in my early twenties I was jumping all over the place between jobs and I would, none of it was career work. Yeah. So, I mean, it's pretty rich for us to expect people straight outta school or in the early twenties to care enough to be thinking about it.

Yeah. So there's definitely from hosts of apprentices, like a lot of patients needed there rightfully so as well. So it's a tricky one. And again, I guess that touches back to something we talked on earlier, like that is why they're getting paid less because they're not really Yeah. Necessarily contributing.

I think that's hard things, that hard thing too. 'cause like you are paying if you, like it has been the employee. If you are paying somebody and then you just expect them. You, you're expecting 'em to do your stuff and then it's hard not to keep that part the money aside of it. So that's the good thing about being a supervisor.

'cause it wasn't my money either. Yeah. It was good to be able to like, yeah, you can sort of. Try to teach somebody. 'cause it's not on your, like it's not your money time. Like it might take a little bit longer, but like it's gonna benefit in the long run. But when you're doing money, you're just like, well, let's get it done.

And not sort of teach as much. You just sort of push it all and they sort of sit in the background, I guess. Now you've raised money. Did you find it mentally, like your attitude towards work changed when you started running your own thing? Did you find yourself sort of either more stressed about trying to get a job done quicker or was it pretty much you?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was rushing, like I felt like I was like, because like once again not planning properly and like I realized I was losing my time and I was like, I'm pretty much working for nothing. And yeah, I was like, yeah, pressure for money. So pressure for like times. I felt like I was rushing a lot when.

It ended up still caring, but like it was just like, I felt oh, look back and like I probably should have spent a little bit more time just like making that a little bit better or, yeah, I think it's an unteachable lesson, but it's something that not unteachable, but I think it's something that employers are always looking for in their staff is someone that has initiative that's thinking ahead, that's planning ahead.

And I tried to sort of instill that and we were, we were pretty good at it. But it's never where you want it to be. But if you wanna stand out as an apprentice, I think if you can show your boss that you are thinking about the next day or even the next hour, ask questions. Ask questions, what are we doing tomorrow?

Where's this irrigation gear coming? Like even try and prompt your boss a bit Like that is huge. I reckon. Like I'm sure you did that when you were in Adelaide, probably with the people in the office. Like how many guys are you sending tomorrow? Or, you know, what machines we to it then? Yeah. Yeah. We would get stuffed actually.

'cause a few times when I first started looks, I was like, I got caught out a fair bit. They'd be like, oh, do you need this person? And I wouldn't actually think that far ahead and then they'd be like. Oh crap, now no one tomorrow or I needed that for tomorrow. Now I'm start back and then Yeah. It's, it's a bit, yeah, it's hard.

It is hard, especially if it's not your money. Like you can't have, I mean, you obviously did, but if there's 10 people there costing 500 bucks a day or whatever. And then the other way around, like if you're there on your own, they're pushing you to do the work faster. Yeah. It's complex. It was hard too because like they have, like I said, the deadlines and with labor hours and stuff like that.

So you'd be working a fair bit with all the and you you'd burn it a fair bit by things would take longer or you wouldn't have things or be reigning. They didn't really heat that in like account of saying, oh, this is gonna, that's where you're gonna burn the hours. And then at the end of it you got hardly any people.

'cause you're trying to you've only burn all your hours trying to catch up. So, oh, so they basically gave you your allocated hours for the job. Yeah. And then they take you the workers away on other sites. That makes sense, I guess. But again because, because it's their money, so they have to make it back.

Did you feel there was a disconnect though, with the hours they gave you and what was realistic or was they pretty accurate? It's, yeah, it is probably never accurate. Yeah. So it's always, yeah, hopes and dreams most time. I think that's another problem. I mean, yeah, that's hard. Like I'm doing the same thing.

I remember like the guys would ask how many days you got for this job? And you'd be like, oh, you know, three people, five days. But you're guessing at the end of the day. Yeah, yeah. Like you're just trying to figure it out in the office based on your past experience and jobs or whatever. And that's hard to actually now like now 'cause I'm by myself.

It's a bit different than trying to quit because like you can sort of think oh I could do that what day? But hold up. No, we don't have two other people or the machine to be able to do it. So it would take a bit longer or, yeah. And the best advice I was given there, which I passed on to you, was just to keep a diary and just track what you do every day.

'cause then at least you can look back and say, shit, how long did it take me to install that mainline for that backyard the other day? All right. That was, you know, 12 hours. All right. I know all that. 12 hours, like every job's different, but at least you've got something. 'cause you and I like our brains probably don't retain all that.

Yeah. Awesome man. Oh, it's such a cool experience to hear about because I've obviously, I know a fair bit of that, but it's just cool to recap it and as I said, man, it's a very impressive like career you've been through. It sounds really interesting too, like bit of resi, bit of commercial, bit of golf.

Yeah. Bit of your own business. Bit of Adelaide. Bit of Canberra like it does sound like you've kept it interesting and you've challenged yourself along the way. Yeah. I tend to do that too much. I tend to chuck myself out and I'm like, oh, why do I do that? But then I reckon that's better than the opposite though.

Yeah. I guess you sit since settle and you won't do all the things you wanna do, so Yeah. Yeah. I do tend to do that a lot. Like I would chuck myself in the deep end and like. Why do I do that? But then, then it, it works out all right. But you are supported and you're ambitious and you're hardworking.

So I don't think there's any problem with that man. Yeah, I reckon you're gonna keep doing it and I'm looking forward to seeing what's gonna happen for the next couple of years, because I know it's gonna be good. Alright, we're gonna try some rapid fire questions. Shoot. What's your favorite tool? Under a hundred dollars.

You couldn't live without. I was thinking about this before. I, I don't know. I liked asking under a hundred dollars because that's hard. Yeah, that's the point. Yeah. It, it makes it actually, you know, it could be a pencil, could be a tape bed. I a hammer Like, like a mallet. Because you use that everywhere.

Yep. You can. That is good actually. You break stuff, hit pens, pegs in. That's a good point because I reckon you're always looking for a mallet. Oh, always. And you'd be lost without it. I reckon. I reckon I got four in that trailer. Yeah, you probably got some, you got my, so Josh has got my old trailer, so he is got all the tools and yeah, all yours.

Plus my old ones. Actually, you know what I've just thought of, 'cause it's the first time I've asked this question is quick grips. I reckon I've got 10. Sets of quick grips. None of yours are not rusted. Well, not good. Yeah. Haven't got any of the good ones. I've got the good ones. Oh, I've got good ones. I've got your ones.

Not horrible. Yeah, well that's the problem. They've probably been in the bottom of that trailer. Yeah. And no one could find them. But yeah, quick grips. Another good tool. I reckon that actually. Yeah, that's fair actually. Yeah. What's the most expensive tool you've bought that was totally worth it? Base level.

Yeah. Yeah. I use I actually, that's another one from being the commercial. We didn't use that enough. 'Cause you can set everything on 'em. Like you can set the whole backyard out in a day, or not a day, but like the whole side out and just on pegs everywhere. So you can sort of see where it is and then you can set the little, like the offsets, dropdowns.

That's another thing to actually like setting heights out. Well, we didn't learn as much with resis was, helps heaps. Like doing offsets. I didn't know what that was when I, it was like you go offset 300 mils so you're not boxing out past the peg and you're knocking the peg over all the time. Yeah, I remember you talking to me about that.

Yeah. You're excited. Yeah. How game changer? Because we, we put the peg right where we wanna dig and then we'd knock on the pin over going. Now what's that hard? Yeah, I mean, I'll admit I learned more about that later as well and I can see how useful it would be. And just, I think it's similar to irrigation.

Just plan how you're gonna attack the job and Yeah. Box it out. Yeah. Set yourself up for success. Do it all at once. Yeah. Box it all out at once and just to get it done. So then it's like everything's bare because landscaping's actually. You know, pretty methodical after that. Mm. Like you gotta do the pavers before the soil, before the irrigation.

Like it's, you know, it can be pretty methodical. The frustration can be if you've half site prepped. Yeah. And then you'd start the paving and you lost your access and you Yeah. It's, yeah. It could be a whole thing. Anyway. That's labor. You can do that everywhere. Yeah. True. Make, make lines everywhere. So.

Alright, next one is, what tool do you wish someone would invent to make your job easier? That's a hard one to, that is a hard one. I don't know if I have an answer for that. I, I do have a tool like Alan Keys. They're, they're the most annoying things in the world. Surely somebody has a better thing than that.

Yeah. I don't know. I've seen those cool things I've seen on Chippy's carpenter belts that they like they're on like a connection. Yeah, yeah. Connection thing. It's like a magnet or whatever. Yeah. And I wonder if there that'd be better. 'cause I hate Allen Key as well. Oh, I, I, I've been building stuff.

'cause since we moved now I, I don't wanna see Allen Keye again. Now you're obviously spending a lot of time on your own.

So do you listen to music podcasts or nothing? Just raw Dogg it. Oh, I've been listening to so much country lately. Hey, in his country era. Well, dad listens to it and it's actually stuck in my head. Who are you listening to? Oh, I like Luke Holmes, but it's, yeah, that's like everybody but Zack, Brian.

Yeah. I just think you been putting like hot, like top pop countries and top country men. Yeah. Top country men shitless. And that's YouTube. Oh, sorry. Yeah, just country. But but when I moved to Adelaide as well, no one listened to Triple J. Yeah. Which I bring over there and everybody thought I was weird and I was like, every time I changed it channel like some people would change it back like.

But I do like just leaving that in the background. I just, I have to have music in the background though. Yeah, same. You just, or you just feel like you're alone. Yeah, definitely. I think working on your working your own's hard. Like it's that's a big one actually. Yeah, we didn't really talk about that, but I think it can be quite challenging.

I think you've gotta be really focused and motivated. Hey. Yeah. Well I sometimes, if I'm by myself, I can just smash outta work real quickly. 'cause then it's just there's just constant working. But when your people are, I, I like talk, like I just, yeah. Well it's good with, with headphones, but even still it's just, it's, it's, it's a mental challenge to like just self motivate yourself rather than having someone there where you're actually on a journey together and you're kind of, you know, completing that task together.

I guess that's gonna be, I mean, you've done it for 10 months in Adelaide, so you know what you're in for. But there's also gonna be, I hope a lot of people in Canberra that you can jump in with their crews and Yeah, hopefully. That'd good. Do you think well that's kind of the end of the ratify question, so thank you for indulging me.

But I did wanna sort of wind up by talking about the future, so that's probably a good segue into, do you think you might. Put on an apprentice or a worker or are you just gonna see what happens or, I would, I would like to 'cause it would be, yeah. 'cause I wouldn't wanna teach maybe like an apprentice.

'cause I would like to teach somebody again, I can so show if they can take my sort of way to work in, bring it somewhere else they wanna do. Yeah. And yeah like it's always better to have something with you anyway. 'cause it is hard. Yeah. Like it is working waste, just holding things. Yeah. Just like string lines and then setting up string lines.

It's, it's annoying when you're by yourself or pipes, keeping pipes outta dirt. Yeah. Yeah. There's gonna be heaps of things. It's just handy having, just holding something when you just need to grab it. So. Yeah. And the company obviously just mentally it's gonna be a lot better. It does obviously introduce a lot of challenges Yeah.

Financially and, and whatever else. You don't need to jump into it, but there's also a lot to be said to just working for yourself, man. There's absolutely, I think this is a stigma, like there's a lot of people that want to have. They talk about how many staff they have, but they might be talking about how much money they're making.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah that's what I was saying, like with like space, how many people they have in like in the office and like that must have been so stressful. Yeah. That's ridiculous. I like, he used like my old boss, like he, he used to be pretty stressed that back in the day, but like now he's pretty good 'cause he is doesn't have to feel like deal with much anymore.

But I understand now. Yeah. Like now like this. Think I was like, oh, he's just so angry boss. Like he is, but now step back, I'm like, I, I respect him. He's so, he took all that risk to do that com. Do that company in now. Yeah. He's doing well. That's, that's a good attitude I think. There certainly is built of people that can take that much risk.

Oh, vast. We've talked about my mate John from Vast Earthworks like. Anyone in the landscape world probably know about vast earthworks and civil and he's a good buddy of mine, John, and it's been amazing watching his extremely rapid growth from one old excavator to, I don't even know, 20, 30 machines. So much stuff now 57 land cruises.

Like he's just, he's done really well, but he's someone that is it can turn into to risk and, and thrives in it somehow. Yeah. Good reward. Yeah, I admire it so much 'cause I don't think I could, but mate, thanks so much for coming in. No worries. And having me, what's, what's the future hold before we wind it up?

We've kind of touched on it, but what do you see happening for, I guess we just keep it to the rest of the year. What are you hoping sort of the next sort of few months hold for you? Oh, just, I just hope like it could get enough work so I can just cruise through really. Yeah. Yeah. I got a, had a few things this year, so, I don't know, just, just push the irrigation.

Yeah. Just, I I wouldn't mind doing that. I don't mind doing all that stuff like that. Like I actually, since I've been doing that, since we're back. It's the small landscaping is actually rewarding. Yeah. But yeah, try to push, push that out a little bit and then, yeah, I'm hoping by the end of the year getting pretty much just into that.

Yeah. Mm. I reckon it's a great idea, mate. I think you're gonna do really well and there's lots of people we can connect you with that will sort of need your services. So I think you're gonna thrive here, mate. Thank you. Welcome back to Canberra Hooper Landscaping Freezing time. Sorry, I've done it again.

Hooper Irrigation and Landscaping. Let's get it right. I'll tag it all in the show notes. You can follow Joshua Long and obviously if you need any  📍 irrigation, you know who to call. Thanks again, mate. Yeah. Thank you. See you. See you.